Jill FeldmanMary, tell us about your current position as the head of the UBS Art Collection.

Mary RozellSince 2015 I have overseen and managed all of the activities related to our 30,000-plus-work global art collection. That includes acquisition, stewardship, and all of the activities related to the collection—exhibitions, loans, client events, and so forth. We currently have Art Collection team offices in Zurich, Hong Kong, Frankfurt, London, and New York.

JFBefore UBS, you were the director of and helped form the art-business master’s program at Sotheby’s Institute of Art. What were some of the core tenets of the program that you developed? What gaps in arts education did you aim to fill?

MRMy goal was to craft an education that I would have wanted. By way of background, I have a law degree, and when I was a young person considering my future career, I thought maybe I wanted to be a museum director. This was a time when a number of museum directors, people with their PhDs in art history, weren’t equipped for the demands of running institutions, so it became clear that having another type of degree would be helpful—especially for a woman.

So I went to law school, and then I received a master’s in modern art from the Courtauld [Institute of Art, London]. While knowing the law is extremely valuable in the art field—I use aspects of it every single day—it’s onerous to attend three years of law school and sit for the bar exam, especially when you don’t necessarily need to know the ins and outs of tort law or property law or criminal law when you’re in the arts. On the other hand, I had a fabulous education at the Courtauld but I graduated with very little practical knowledge of the art market. There was no context to enter the working world unless you wanted to be a scholar. So the goal at Sotheby’s Institute of Art was to bring in all those elements, to provide scholarship, but also to have a thorough grounding in the art market and a full year of art-law education. When I speak with alumni, they all say that the law courses were the most valuable, even though they were the toughest for them. There are a lot of art-business programs out there now, but I do think we were the leader in creating that kind of education.

JFThe educational and professional paths are otherwise so stratified, so the negotiation, communication, and critical and analytical thinking skills that one develops with a law degree—these are absolute requisites for so many aspects of daily operations in the arts.

MRExactly. If you’re working in the arts, at some point you’re going to encounter issues of copyright and intellectual property, contracts, the moral rights of artists, maybe tax and estate planning, just to name a few. Law is also a way of thinking and a mindset: to ask questions, to close loopholes, and to avoid problems before they happen.

JFYes, anticipation, clarification, and proactive protection are such critical parts of everything we do. When you wrote The Art Collector’s Handbook, what were some of the things, just generally in the market or that you were dealing with day to day, that you felt were most important to share with the public?

MRWhen I moved back to the United States after several years in Berlin, I started working with private collectors. The first had a stellar collection that spanned eras and mediums. There I was with all this experience—I was an art lawyer, I’d been a journalist, I’d curated, worked in an auction house, etc.—but when it came to running this major collection, there was so much I didn’t know. The nuts and bolts of collection management—insurance, climate control, conservation, logistics—were just things that I didn’t have experience with. There were also complex estate and tax issues across various jurisdictions. And within four days into my new role working for this collector, 9/11 happened, so I was immediately thrown into emergency planning for a collection that I had not yet had the opportunity to become acquainted with. Emergencies are another thing collectors have to think about, particularly with climate change—we’ve seen a lot of natural and unnatural disasters in which art has been lost. Overall, I learned a great deal from the network of experts that we regularly brought in.

When I moved on to Sotheby’s Institute of Art, I started an elective course on collecting and collection management because I felt there was a need for it for anyone interested in working in the private-collection space or even in a public museum. There was no book on the subject; instead, I had a file full of different articles. Over time it became clear that it would be helpful to have a comprehensive reference resource where all this information could be compiled. That is how it started.

JFThere’s an incredible amount of administrative and logistical information in your book—things that most people don’t learn until they’re already in the midst of doing them. One’s collection database and archive are really only as strong as they are precise and comprehensive, and filling in the blanks retroactively can be an insurmountable task. So for a collector it’s a significant advantage to have that information and infrastructure up front.

MRRight. That’s the starting point. The book looks at the life cycle of collecting, starting with acquisition through the ultimate disposition of a collection. As the data related to any given artwork is so crucial, one must consider early on how to choose the right database, which is very much based on the unique aspects of any given collection.

JFFrom the first edition to the second, which was published last year, what has changed, and what are some of the things that you feel will continue to change?

MRIt’s astonishing that so much change happened in the industry over a five-year period. It seems these shifts are accelerating at an ever more rapid pace. New art-business models emerged and boundaries continued to blur, between, say, the traditional roles of auction houses and galleries. The market also continued to become more financialized, it expanded in that way. Technological advances have also had a huge impact in recent years, both in terms of transactional developments and with respect to art production itself, with virtual reality and interactive works becoming more mainstream.

So while there were a lot of basic updates to make, we also felt it was important to add a new chapter on private collections due to the explosive rise in numbers over the last several years. There’s much to mine from the examples cited—some superb models, but a number of cautionary examples, too.

Both editions put a big emphasis on sharing collections, with opening a private museum being the most extreme example of that. The new edition also has more of a market orientation; there’s a greater focus on how to navigate the art market itself.

JFYes, anyone collecting art today will have an awareness of the market. Even if it isn’t a priority or doesn’t factor into acquisition decisions, it’s still part of the conversation.

MRAbsolutely. I would say that not all have an awareness, but they should.

JFWhat advice would you give to a new collector just starting to acquire art?

MRThe best collections are created out of personal passions, so always follow what you’re interested in and ask yourself why you’re drawn to certain artworks, what are you responding to in any given work. It’s really about engagement. There’s something disappointing in encountering a collection that lacks any personality or originality. Of course you also need to do research and not just fall in love with a piece without looking at the greater body of an artist’s work. Also, ensure that you’re paying the right price, which is important [laughter]. Again, I encourage all collectors to follow the market and not be shy about asking dealers for prices.

JFYou can collect from a place of emotion and curiosity and passion, but it doesn’t mean you have to be blind to the market—

MRExactly—

JF—especially because so many conversations, even among artists themselves, relate to the market. So there’s an opportunity and an impetus or even an onus to be aware, even if it’s not your motivation. We’re all participating in a market, whether we choose to be responsive to it or not.

MRRight. It used to be a lot more taboo to talk about the market and serious collecting in the same breath.

JFYes, and that’s the irony, too—that it was taboo, and at the same time exclusionary. There’s something much more democratic in expanding the rhetoric and giving everyone access to that conversation.

MRAgree.

JFHow would you characterize the art market at this moment? What are some of the larger global factors central to its health?

MRWell, after the initial COVID shutdowns we saw that the art market remained surprisingly robust. Part of that is a reflection of the great global wealth that exists today, as well as of the geographic and demographic expansion of the art market over the last twenty years. We’ll have to see how the war in Ukraine affects the global art situation; it’s hard to predict what the impact will be, but I do think there will be repercussions. Certainly the sanctions will have some impact, but overall, the art market feels strong.

JFHow did the pandemic affect the UBS Art Collection?

MRIn the beginning, we didn’t know what was going to happen. We had all these projects we needed art for, but there was so much uncertainty. Ultimately, we continued collecting at the same level; in fact it was refreshing to be able to focus more on it. Many of our activities were cut, such as art fairs, but that created more time for deep dives, and the galleries did such a great job—the digital aspect and online programming were really helpful. You were at home with extra time, so you could listen to artist talks or do virtual studio tours, and at a more organic pace. I listened to a lot of podcasts while out on walks.

JFThere have long been images of exhibitions and selected works online, but with the lockdown, artists, galleries, and museums made such an effort with their digital programming and editorial content. The quality of the content you could access online grew exponentially. Do you expect these new technologies and modalities to endure? How have you observed them evolve since the pandemic, and do you expect they will shift the role of traditional, physical art fairs?

MRCertainly this technological change was already underway, particularly with the larger galleries, which had the resources to create online viewing rooms even before the pandemic struck. But the situation jumpstarted the technological side, and everybody had to get their websites and OVRs established in record time. I think this is a really welcome evolution, this whole idea of a hybrid approach going forward. And we did the same at UBS. Our exhibitions were canceled during the pandemic, our New York gallery was closed, so, together with the Artland platform, we worked to create virtual-reality exhibitions instead. That had long been on our radar; it just wasn’t a priority when we could stage physical shows. We’re excited to have this infrastructure in place now, so that we can keep a hybrid approach going forward. It allows us to share our works with an even greater public.

As for the traditional fairs, people still welcome them for the learning that takes place there, the connections that can be made with other people, and the opportunity to see works from around the world all at one time. Still, technology will likely make people more comfortable with feeling they don’t have to attend every fair.

Something positive that has emerged—and I do hope that it endures—is a greater focus on the local. For me, it was a pleasure to visit galleries during the pandemic in the limited way that we could, because it’s hard to do that when you’re traveling abroad often and I really appreciated what New York had to offer. Having access to attentive and savvy gallerists here—such as yourself!—can make all the difference. It’s been a great reset in that sense.

JFCould you contextualize how UBS began collecting art in the first place, and how that initiative has prospered over time?

MRUBS is unique among corporate collections, certainly among those of financial institutions, because the collection is built from a number of collections that were combined over the decades as different institutions merged. Three institutions formed the core of the collection: Union Bank of Switzerland, Swiss Bank Corporation, and PaineWebber in America. So there’s a combination of this long European tradition of patronage—some of it government mandated, with industries having to give a certain percentage to art—with PaineWebber, which had an American sense of innovation and risk-taking. Don Marron, CEO of PaineWebber, was the emblem of that; with his incredible eye, he was a connoisseur who was willing to take leaps of faith.

These three collections were unified as one in 2000, and formally within the bank in 2004. Once they were combined, an art board was appointed to oversee all the art activities of the bank. Since then, we’ve continued our acquisitions at a steady pace, and of course we’ve introduced new initiatives as well. In the last years it’s been a priority to revive artist commissions, a great legacy that UBS had from Europe for about thirty years starting in the 1970s. We’re once again quite active in the commission space.

We’ve also opened a new public gallery at UBS America’s headquarters, at 1285 Avenue of the Americas in Manhattan. This is something I’m really pleased about, because corporate collections often remain private. The UBS Art Gallery is free to the public, it’s open five days a week, and people can just walk in with no commitment. They can stay for five minutes, they can stay for an hour. It gives us an opportunity to show different aspects of our collection.

JFHow would you characterize UBS’s approach to collecting overall? To what extent do you consider your acquisitions conservative versus risk-taking?

MRWe only buy work on the primary market, because part of our mission is to support artists and the galleries that nurture their careers. So we only acquire work at the time of its creation, and that’s always been the case. There have been a few exceptions here and there to fill a gap or a certain need, but since the 1960s, across the board in Europe, the United States, and now globally, UBS has always collected “the art of our time.” We look for art that pushes boundaries, that reflects what’s going on in our society today, that sparks inspiration.

JFAre there consistent qualities that you look for when making an acquisition, or qualities you tend to avoid?

MRWe’re looking for something original, whether conceptually or in technique or visually. It’s about new ideas, things that aren’t redundant. We try to avoid overpriced works, which sometimes means we miss the moment—we didn’t hit that sweet spot where an artist has a certain recognition but you’re still ahead of the curve with respect to prices.

JFThis is where being mindful of the market doesn’t undermine your passion, but it’s still relevant.

MRExactly. Sometimes it’s a subtle shift—between one show and the next, you suddenly realize that a body of work is out of reach, you’re just too late. It takes a certain amount of discipline to know where to draw the line.

Another point is that we never want to acquire our second choice (unless it’s very close to the first choice). Often you want to add an artist’s work to the collection and you can’t get the pieces that you want, that really resonate, and you’re offered other material that you don’t feel is as good. We won’t add an artist’s work just to tick a box of having the artist. Waiting for the right work requires patience. Sometimes it takes years to be offered the right piece.

JFWhat gives you confidence that you’re bringing long-time value to the collection?

MRWith respect to any given artwork, there’s no way to be certain that the work will appreciate in value in the long term. I should note that we don’t collect for investment purposes, even though the collection has greatly increased in value over time. That said, it’s always important to feel like you’re making a sound investment, that there’s potential for the value to increase. We don’t know what the future’s going to bring, where the market’s going to go, but I do feel quite confident that we’re doing our best in terms of the due diligence needed to bring long-term value.

JFAnd in line with what you’ve been affirming throughout: buying out of genuine passion and not just checking a box, but also being mindful of the market.

MRYes. Getting the best examples of the most compelling artwork at the right price over time.

JFTo that end, what is the collection focusing on at the moment, and in the year ahead?

MRThis is an exciting moment in that we’re going back to “real life.” We just mounted our first show in two years at the UBS Art Gallery, presenting new acquisitions in the collection made over the last few years. We also have some commissioned projects, including one for the UBS Arena on Long Island and another for our flagship in London. I would say the most exciting endeavor this year is a new book project we’re working on with Phaidon. The publication, Reimagining: New Perspectives, focuses exclusively on new acquisitions and is scheduled to launch at Art Basel Miami Beach at the end of the year. The book is a testament to the new directions we’ve taken with our collecting and our activities over the last seven years.